Re: Popup Menus [Commit (HEAD): Stock icons for the positioned object popup menu (gtk).]

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005, Tomas Frydrych wrote:

> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:10:32 +0000
> From: Tomas Frydrych <tomasfrydrych@yahoo.co.uk>
> To: abidevlist <abiword-dev@abisource.com>
> Subject: Re: Popup Menus [Commit (HEAD): Stock icons for the positioned
> object popup menu (gtk).]
>
>
>
> > "Provide an access key for each item. However, to enhance their spatial
> > efficiency and readability, do not show keyboard shortcuts in popup
> > menus."
> >
> > ... but I suppose it makes sense.
> >
> > If I read that right "access key" is a synonym for mnemonics and it is
> > only shortcuts like Ctrl+Shift+A that shouldn't be shown. Sounds good
>
> I am not convinced by this at all; what exactly is spatial efficiency of
> a menu?

I think that might be just pseudo technical gibberish meaning they do not
want hugely wide (or long) context menus taking up lots of space.

> When I open a menu, I do so because I want to do something with
> the menu.

That you open a context menu at all puts you beyond the average user, our
achetypal "Church Secretary" user, but anyway ...

> What matters to me is whether I can do that particular task efficiently,
> and having a keyboard shortcut visible in the menu will assist me it

The HIG is only suggesting they be hidden in the context menu for a
cleaner more aesthetically pleasing look. I believe this is a minor
pointbut I'm inclined to believe the context menu is that much uglier and
more cluttered with the shortcuts in there. It seems to me that the
context menu is a shortcut of another kind, and that if you are using the
context menu to speed up mouse actions you are not as likely to be using
the keyboard shortcuts.

> that. The main advantage of kbd shortcuts is that they are consistent,
> so I will memorise them through usage. So if the menu reminds me that
> instead of calling up a menu I could have used a shortcut, in time I
> learn to bypass the menu altogether (I am not hypothesizing here, this
> is how I actually learn kbd shortcuts). (Mnemonics, on the other hand,
> are menu-specific and have to be memorised on menu by menu basis, or as
> long sequences.) I personally do not care that for the shortcuts to be
> present the menu will be 30px wider, after all I open the menu to look
> at the menu, not at the screen behind it.

> There is a certain tendency in GNOME to hide things from the user, to
> provide preferences without appropriate UI, and to make it difficult for
> the user to do things in a way that is different from what the usability
> people think is the right way. To me usability is to a large extent a
> question of personal preference; what works for me might not work for
> you and what works for you might not suit me. I am not keen to have that
> 'users do not know what is good for them' attitude imported into AW
> design, UI or otherwise.

This is pretty vague and I'm not sure how to disagree with you unless you
provide specific examples. Abiword has always been pretty clear on the
fact that most users do in fact want things done the same way as Microsoft
Word or better (and I mean demonstratably better not just different).

I think most of us are aware that the HIG is an imperfect and evolving
document that does not and cannot express all the details of a very
specific application like abiword and that the specific knowledge we have
from extensive use of different word processors and listening carefully to
our users is insight they cannot hope to match in a general desktop wide
set of guidelines. They are after all only guidelines.

> Usability is also about consistency; I find it not only irritating but
> also hindering my ability to use an application efficiently if when I
> update it the menus change, the shortcuts change, etc. UI changes should
> not be gratuitous and I consider much of the recent UI changes to fall
> into that category. For example, I will have to unlearn the Alt+F,F
> sequence I use all the time. To access the recent files via kbd is more
> involved now than it was before -- I often need to open the top file on
> the recent list, which simply meant Alt+F,F,Enter -- now I have scroll
> through the menu or use the mouse; but hey, we are HIG compliant!

I also reject the change that removes the submenu for Recent files.
I reject the notion that this change makes Abiword any more "HIG
compliant" and I'm right there with you asking for it to be rolled back.

> On a related note, I understand that M$ spends lots of money on
> usability research, so having the Word interface as a starting point for
> our own is not as a bad thing as some might seem to think;

I've said it before and I'll keep saying it:
"the same as Microsoft Word or better"

Embarce and extend baby, embrace and extend!

> there is also the fact that lot of people are familiar with the Word
> interface (because they might have to use it at work, etc.), and this
> too is a usability factor. That is not to say we have to follow Word
> sheepishly, or that we could not improve the interface, but I would like
> any improvements to be driven by _real_ user feedback and some common
> sense.

I think that is what we have been doing and I hope it is what we will
continue to do.

Sincerely

Alan Horkan

Inkscape, Draw Freely http://inkscape.org
Abiword is Awesome http://abisource.com
Received on Wed Feb 23 16:49:16 2005